Notre Dame’s 2 point conversion…. not even close
Fig Jam
This is a picture I took with my Blackberry of my TV screen. It’s pretty good, but I wonder if the replay officials in the UW vs. Notre Dame game might have had even better technology…
The picture below is Notre Dame’s two point conversion attempt with 1:20 left in the game. The runner Robert Hughes is clearly down with the ball well short of the goal line. If the runner were correctly called down, then Erik Folk’s field goal for Washington with :06 left would have been for the win instead of the tie.
After they took away Chris Polk’s TD on a play where both of the NBC announcers agreed that it was a touchdown, don’t you think they could have looked at this?
It’s not even close.
Loading ...
Too bad the replay official was from the Big East. I think the Pac-10 crew on the field was trying to keep us in it when they gave us the “roughing the snapper” call.
God that was tough to watch.
You are so full of sh!t. He was up. The refs were playing for Washington today. THat TD they took away on the phantom hold? BS. That roughing the snapper call? Please. Washington lost the game even with the ref on their team.
Good call, Fig Jam. I have another picture of it here but yours is better:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dharmabruce/3978109543/
boo hoo
I’m an ND fan and I thought Polk was in and Hughes was stopped short. However, we also had a few head scratchers from the zebras go against us. If it makes you feel any better, Sark’s gonna be a damn fine coach (wish I could say the same about Weis), and I’m also pretty sure USC is gonna stomp us by 35 and Stanford by 17 (and hell, throw in 1 or 2 other inexplicable losses).
I generally don’t give a damn about officiating in a game. you win some, you lose some. But in this game the replay officials interjected themselves into the game with the Polk play. Inexplicable that the 2 point conversion was not reviewed.
As a fan of ND I will openly admit the 2-point conversion call was blown. Hughes was down on that play. However, Polk also appeared to be down about a football length from the goal, I thought they got that one correct.
I agree the odds for UW were much better if it is a one point game going into their final drive, but you can’t assume the ensuing drive would go the exact same way as it did. ND’s defense calls different plays if they know a field goal beats them. So we will never know what would have happened if that call goes the other way.
I will take the win, but I am sorry that it is tarnished with controversy.
Kevin, you are a straight up guy with admitting the 2 point conversion was a bad call. Sure we don’t know what would have happened in the last drive, but lets get these calls right. These are young men who work hard and play hard. You got to hope that an adult who has a job to get it right, would get it right, or at least look at BOTH plays.
It was a great game.
Who gives a shit you lost. You should be use to it by now. Typical Husky always bitchin
So Hughes was down, Polk was in.
But let’s back up. There was a nonexistent hold that negated a touch to Kyle Rudolph. A TERRIBLE pass interference call on UW’s drive to tie the game that kept them alive. A phantom roughing the snapper call that ended up burning almost 4 minutes off the clock because UW couldn’t punch it in 8 tries (count ‘em, 8) from inside the 5.
You’re going to have calls going both ways, but only bad sports dwell on them. I find it so hilarious and deliciously ironic that Sark and his D coordinator were questioning the 2 pt conversion because they thought he was aided by the runner. I was at the ND USC game in ’05 when Bush “aided” Leinert into the endzone. In fact, it happened right in front of me. That was even less subtle than this one and, in my opinion, changed the course of ND history for a good two-three years. So man-up and take the good with the bad.
Polks knee and the ball broken the line simultanously, it was reversed. ND was down at 1 yard line, ball at that point also, no review. Consistancy, especially when you call off one teams touchdown, and allow points on the same type of play. Bad JOB REFS.
The Huskies played great, as a second string team with a coach of six months. ND, sorry guys I think it’s time for your next head coach, you do have some bad ass players though. 33 nasty runner
OMG these “indisputable” pics that are posted of Hughes being down!?!? You must be kidding! You can’t tell whose legs is whose and where they are. I’m from Dallas and I’ve got some pictures of the “grassy Knoll” that you’d love. If you think these pics show anything then these definetly prove that Oswald didn’t shoot Kennedy.
Wash failed on two series from the two to get in, accept move on.
Silvia. “use to it”. When you move onto third grade post again and let us know how hard it is.
Bad officiating overall. I think UW took the brunt of it though.
The pass interference call against Notre Dame late wasn’t bad. You can’t catch the ball when the guy grabs your arm before the ball get’s there.
I thought the call back on the late UW TD was very poor. Even though the Huskies were gipped saying they had conclusive evidence to overrule, there was NO WAY that he as half a yard short. I thought in slow motion that he was MAYBE about 4″ short. It is much easier to sneak 4″ then 18″.
Amazigng that they didn’t catch the guy being down on the 2 point conversion. I will admit that i didn’t see it live though. That angle they showed live was the wrong one to check it though. The booth guys obviously missed one. Could have been a game winning FG for UW at the end. But who knows? Maybe ND stops them knowing they can’t let them into FG range.
I missed the first part of the game so i didn’t see the hold call against ND. I will say that i thought the roughing the snapper call was weakish. It is college ball and they do have strict rules against that though. He did get his hands up in his face a little. Without reading the rules again i will say i thought that one was a bad call.
But that call would never have happened if they didn’t blow what was already a TD or ball on the 4″ line for UW.
Great game to watch.
So, am I reading that if Hughes knee was down and/or Polk’s non-TD was ruled a TD, UW would have won the game? Would the officials just have called the game over, or would the two teams have kept playing until the end of regulation or overtime? I would hesitate to suggest that there would have been a differnt outcome as ND appears to have a knack for winning close games.
calls go each way throughout a game. However, the replay system has to leave zero margin of error – particularly where scoring plays are involved.
How, the TD could have been deemed reversible (which was not possible under the rules) and how the 2-point could not be reviewed (which again, was clearly wrong) – can only leave an ND-Hater, figuring scandal.
I am no, ND-hater – been a fan since Lake Dawson left the west coast.
I still hope to make a trip to a game there and will enjoy visiting 2point-Jesus.
When you can’t definitively scored in two full sets of goal line downs, you have bigger things to bitch about other than the referees who blew calls both way in the game.
You all are forgetting it has to be inconclusive evidence and they are not allowed to zoom in on replays, they have to use standard video. There were a hell of a lot more calls blown in favor of Washington. All I can say is if you cant score in 7 plays from 1 yard out you suck and deserve to lose. 3 times we stopped the pansy QB sneak play, teach your line to block.
This kinda of whining just goes to show that ND will never be given the respect they deserve. People just love to hate them because they are the best program of all time. 2nd in winning percentage, just behind MIchigan, and most national titles. Everyone hates the best and thats ok. But stop whining. You’re in the weak Pac-10 anyway. You have no chance of ever doing anything special.
Sorry. Just woke up. I meant indisputable, not inconclusive. Words, I really dont like them.
UW could have challenged the 2-pt call if they thought the runner was down. They had plenty of time before the subsequent kickoff. If they missed a challenge, that’s on the UW staff.
Why is it that, of late, officiating only seems to be an issue when we play teams with religious affiliations?
The Huskies blew the game and should have scored at least one touchdown in who knows how many opportunites at the goal line.
But I think we should consider that there is a HUGE difference in a call by a ref in the heat of the game when there are so many variables, and a replay by the officials upstairs. Up there they have time and technology to evaluate the plays. For this reason, I think the refs can be held responsible.
1 – I don’t think coaches in college get to challenge. They are all booth reviews.
2 – Nowhere in the article is it argued that UW wins if that 2 point conversion is no good. However – the replay officials put themselves into the game when they reviewed Polk’s TD and determined that there was indisputable video evidence that he didn’t make it in. Then they determined that he was on the 1/2 yard line. This, after both of the NBC announcers agreed that it would be ruled a TD. So – ok, I guess that’s what the booth is for. To make tough calls like that. But the result was that points came off the board. That’s huge. Yes – UW should have been able to punch it in – but they didn’t.
Likewise, when ND runs that 2 point conversion and the RB goes into a pile at the 3, appears stonewalled, and then makes his way just into the endzone – where was the replay booth? They had plenty of time to buzz down to the officials. It should have happened and that’s all I think UW deserved. Maybe they still wouldn’t have won the game. There’s no way to know.
Those Big East ‘officials’ in the replay booth OVERTURNING a Polk toudhdown that even NBC broadcasters employed practically by ND thought was a touchdown gave ND a chance at a goal line stance that they never should had. That CLEAR touchdown puts Huskies up by more than a touchdown and big east refs in booth but a different conference on field IT WAS LIKE – ‘how can we make ND like us enuff to consider one day joining our conference for football too?’
How this wasnt the lead and was buried by the highlights and in most articles NOT MENTIONED AT ALL befuddles and bewilders me. TALK ABOUT BURYING THE LEAD….
Should it have been made a moot point by Washington AND was the Goal Line stance impressive … sure … bui the fact remains that POLK scored a touchdown and Washington won that game, and i do not have a dog in that hunt … INDISPUTABLE evidence is needed to overturn a call on the field, and even the NBC broadcasters agreed that Polk scored on the scamper THUS the goal line stance as impressive as it may have looked is AS TAINTED AS COLORADO winning on a firth down all those years back!!!!
None of this matters. Either way Notre Dame rose up and made THREE successful goal line stands. One to end the 4th quarter, one after the Polk TD was waived off and one after the inexplicable “roughing the snapper” call. Kudos to the Irish for imposing their will when it mattered.
A comment for Mike who complains of the “phantom holding call” that took away Rudolph’s TD:
Are you nuts? Number 72 tackled our defensive end. Watch the replay.
Well, I guess this is similiar in alot of ways to the Michigan vs. ND game. I say we enforce salary penalties on referrees that cannot make the right call after the final review is complete.
Great game. Heartbreaker for the Huskies. Could have gone either way. Both deserved it. A tough one and unfortunate the refs interjected themselves in it as often as they did and then being inexplicably silent other times. That’s what is wrong with Pac-10 officiating. Not sure how it is nationwide. Probably not much better. Huskies had several chances to win this one. They blew it, as hard as it is to admit that. Time to move on.
You call that grainy ass phto conclusive evidence?
You know the one, the one where the player’s knee is behind the foot of the opposing player and blocks the view.
Let me guess, you got your credit card out and couldn’t slide it under the photo?
I hope you’re not an attorney.
I’m a die hard dawg fan, but the biggest issue here is Coach Sark’s play calling. Not sure if any of you are aware of this, but ex-players and/or coaches from USC and ND will tell you off the record that Weiss and Sark have a deep down disdain for each other. We all know of Weiss’s ego, and Weiss thinks of Sark as a young spoiled punk just living the lime light under Carroll. Sark lost this game. Coach, you have done a great job with instilling energy in the program, but let’s get real. We are still 2 and 3. Which means, had we had Locker ALL year last year, we would be on the same pace. People seem to forget: We were without Locker for all our most winnable games last year! So don’t feed me this crap about improvement. We are on pace for 5-6 wins, which is what would’ve been with a healthy team last year! Now 7-8 wins this year. That will be improvement. How many yards did our D give up AGAIN?! I give them credit for nutting up and holding ND to several FG’s, but come on Dawg fans. It’s great to have hope and be excited, but realistic and quit frickin whining about refs. It is what it is. Which brings me back to Sark’s goal line calls. This was an ego battle between him and Weiss. Sark wanted to show that we were stronger, tougher, better, more willing. He wanted to impose his will onto him through his players. He let his ego get in the way and it lost us the game. PERIOD. I was watching the game with several ex-dawgs, and we ALL were screaming to fake the HB dive to Polk, and have Locker turn and roll for a dead sprint to the pylon. There is noone in the counrty that will beat him, especially when ND has all 11 guys within 5 yards of the ball. Coach: I expect you to man up to the truth at your news conference today, and bury this BS whining. We have a must win with AZ.
It’s necessary to correct several misstatements in earlier postings.
First, this picture does not meet the standard of indisputable evidence necessary to overturn the ruling on the field. While you can see a knee down (both in this photo and on the moving replay) it is not clear whose knee it is or where the ball is when the knee goes down. Remember, it was called a good two-pointer on the field.
Second, Fig Jam incorrectly says that coaches cannot challenge plays. In fact, coaches in NCAA may challenge a play once per game if they have a timeout. Sarkisian had not yet used his challenge, as Charlie Weis noted in his post-game conference. Thus, the Huskies have no one to blame but their coaches for the lack of review about whether Hughes was down. For the NCAA rule on challenges, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant_replay_in_American_football#NCAA_football
Third, some mentioned that Pac-10 officiating is poor. Yes, there have been historic problems, but those have been in favor of the Pac-10 team (ask Oklahoma about that). Pac-10 officials on the field called the two-point try good.
Fourth, I have read some comments about whether Hughes was pushed into the end zone. The rule on pushing has been changed since the famous “Bush Push” of 2005. Players are not penalized now for pushing the pile, so long as they do not lift, pull, or grab their teammate. The Pac-10 officials actually threw a flag on the conversion play, but then picked it up, probably because the head official corrected the lower official who was calling the old penalty.
Fifth, a much better argument for the Huskies is the reversal of the Polk touchdown. From the review, it is difficult to tell whether the RB is in. He looks like he might be a little short. But it was called a touchdown on the field, and you need indisputable evidence to overturn. Not sure I saw something indisputable on the replay.
Sixth and finally, this win is no more tarnished than several this season. College football referees are not as good as the pros, and unfortunately close games often come down to a few plays. To the extent that ND receives less than full credit for the UWash victory, they must receive less than full blame for the Michigan loss, in which a touchdown by Armando Allen was reversed on replay that showed no indisputable evidence.
I think the Huskies are an up-and-coming program, and I welcome them to the membership of the PTWSD club, aka the Post Tyrone Willingham Stress Disorder club.
Go Irish!
The majoirty of you are morons….the issue is whether on that particular play there should have been a review and was his knee down before the ball crossed the end line. Every one of you should agree it should have been reviewed, NO MATTER what happened previous or after. No matter what calls were right or wrong during the rest of the game. I saw the same thing on an HD TV using the exact camera angles shown to us on replay. It is indisputable his knee was down and the ball had not crossed the end line. No trick cameras or zoom. Case closed!! Admit the mistake, apologize, and try not to make the same mistake the next game….although everyone’s comments are entertaining but really do no more than prove what’s wrong with our society and education in the U.S…..
Big D– you’re such a die hard Husky fan that you missed the 44-10 drubbing to open last year vs Oregon, or Oklahoma beating us 55-14??? We weren’t even close to being in either game. This year we outplayed LSU, beat USC, and went to OT in South Bend and we obviously haven’t improved??? It’s a shame that forums like this allow @#$% like you to represent Dawg fans.
FYI. Nobody here is anti-Sark by a long shot.
My two cents, though not worth a plugged nickel in the long run, is that it doesn’t really matter how this game ended up, though it would have been nice to end up with a W.
The key for the Washington program is being competitive on a national stage, as they have been in 3 huge games this year. The LSU game was on ESPN and everyone saw what Sark was going to do to this program. The USC game was shown to about 52% of the country and they all saw the camera shaking every time USC touched the ball. This game was on national TV again and showed that Washington is back as a relevant program.
Every one of these games is huge for recruiting purposes. This program needs more athletes who are bigger, faster, and stronger than what we already have. Washington wins that game (and probably the LSU game as well) if they’re faster on the perimeter. They were killed on short passes wide that turned into BIG plays. This is a function of guys on the outside who aren’t ready or physically gifted enough to play on the next level.
If you look at the elite programs, they all have perimeter players who will play on the next level. Right now, I don’t look at any of our guys out there and say “He’s a lock to play on Sundays.” That’s where these games are going to benefit us. Sark and Holt can walk into a living room this off season and say “Look at what we did in big games. You’re going to get exposure. You’re going to play big programs. We’re a big time program and you’re going to play on Sundays if you go to UW.” That hasn’t happened in a long time. Our last big perimeter recuit might have been Reggie Williams. We missed out on Taylor Mays because we’d fallen so far.
I died a little during the ND game, only because we really should have won that game, and that has nothing to do with the officiating. However, I really like the direction we’re headed and these nationally broadcast games will play a big part in that process.
Great game, sans the replay booth officials interjecting themselves front and center. Polk’s overturn is a travesty, I have no idea if UW wins the game if they make the right call, but it sure would have been nice to see the game play out after that, unfortunately we’ll never know.
ND played great, UW played great, looking forward to seeing how we respond against Arizona.
GO DAWGS!
Big Jim:
You’re such a tough guy on the internet. “$#!^ like me eh?” Get a grip, and realize it’s a forum for opinions. If you don’t like it, don’t read it. But if you want to call names, then hide on a forum, that speaks to your lack of testicular fortitude. Anytime you want to man up, I will be happy to slap the taste right out of your mouth. My seats are in DJC, and I park in E11. Just start asking for Big D, and you’ll get pointed in the right direction. I’ll be sure you get taken care of really nice. CLOWN.
sorry dude I look at the picture and see a black shadow under his knee right before he pushes up and in. your evidence has know value. sorry
Hughes was down. No question.
Another matter to consider, though: After ND took the lead, on a 3rd and 10, Locker completed a long pass to get near FG range. Watch the replay. The UW WR loses the ball as he comes down and it hits the ground. UW hurried to the LOS, and the next snap came before anyone had any notion it was an incompletion.
As a ND fan, I cringed when other ND fans cried about refs after the UM game. We had our chances. We didn’t make the plays. Were there bad calls? You bet. It was atrocious. But ND had its chances anyway.
Same deal with UW. Hughes was down. I agree. But the Huskies should be looking at themselves after the game. You can’t get 1 yard in 8 tries? You can’t bring down a RB when he’s wrapped up at the 4 by 5 guys? Blaming the refs is easy. It’s why fans do it.
H&F has arrived. Legitimate threats on the message board. Congrats guys.
I’m a Seahawks fan, and all of the Seahawks fans were complaining about bad calls after the Superbowl loss to Pittsburgh. Simply put, if you play a better game than your opponent, a couple blown calls won’t decide the game. You have to give yourself enough of a cushion becaue it’s always a possibility.
don’t whine about it.
So about this “Big D”….has Tubby measured it yet?
I like that people censor themselves on here. People go ahead and let the fucks and shits and cunts and faggots fly!
http://www.bustersports.com/blog/pac-10-news/2009/10/05/pac-10-week-5-report-card/
This photo is conclusive evidence that the 2 pt. conversion was no good.
There were bad calls on both sides. The one that no one has spoke about was that on UW’s last drive in regulation (for the tying FG). On 3rd and 10 ball on the Washington 37 33 seconds left. The 37 yard pass to James Johnson hit the ground as he fell to the ground! It should have been an incomplete pass. Am I the only one who saw this?
There were lots of blown calls in this game, including the 38 yard reception by UW on their last drive in regulation. The receiver bobbles the ball as he is going down and it bounces off the turf before he cradles it. The pass was ruled complete and no replay review. That’s forty yards of field position.
Like I said, lots of blown calls.
Yes, the Huskies suck for not being able to punch it in from the 1 yard line.
Yes, bad calls don’t guarantee the game would have been won by the Huskies.
But NO, none of that is a valid defense for the refs’/replay officials’ bad calling.
Polk’s TD was too close to be overturned. The original ruling should have been upheld, and it happened to have been a touchdown. If the original ruling was not a touchdown, then I’d agree that the hypothetical “not TD” ruling in this case should have upheld. Things being as they are, the original ruling was a TD and there was no indisputable evidence to overturn that.
I can see why people say the 2 pt conversion has no indisputable evidence based on the photo here, but look at this: http://www.bustersports.com/blog/pac-10-news/2009/10/05/pac-10-week-5-report-card/